why i am totally disapointed with sonic p

flo

Many thanks to sonic potion for the total lack of answer to my inquiries or support since 2 month, after providing me wrong part in my expensive kit.

Although he recognise his error in the metal case post, and provide me wrong part in my kit (incompatible with the case he sell me together) julian didn't answer to any of my mails (3 or 4), provide any support, and just blatantly ignore me until now, although he clearly know the case.

Being able to create a thing like the lxr don't put you up of other people, especially your customer, who trusted you by buying your things and making alive your company. 

What sort of fucking pretentious and self confident guy can act like this???? 

By doing this you just let me 2 month alone without any seq, waiting each day for an answer or a sign from your part.

it's very cool from your part to advise people :"Even if you are just a few hours away from playing with your new synth, don't work in a hurry. A stupid mistake will take longer to fix than to take your time and work thoroughly.

"

But you should too mention  that if the stupid mistake came from you (by how to say, too much self confidence and lack of control or working in a hurry??), anyone shouldn't expect for any support.

And from my experience, you are a stellar way distance from other kits sellers on this...

It's now "sort of fixed". I removed the four bad pots you provide me with the  280E kit incompatible with the 100 E case. ( 1h) i removed the cracked screen (3h), cracked due to tried to move it after first solder  thinking it was the cause of not going in the case ( in facts it was your pots). I bought a new screen ( 20 euros) i resolder the 4 knobs adrian provide me ( a a place i wasnt, but he can't know that, i had to wait 2 weeks before putting my hand on them) . One of them was faulty. I desolder it again, killing most of the pad after this second desoldering. refusing to pay 20 more or so for the delivering of a 1 E new pot, and not hoping anynthing anymore from sp or his fanboy i take one of the older one , i worked on it to make it "compatible". 

My lxr now have a pot way much harder than the other, not being the same type and i feel very bad about that. the pcb is messed a lot around this pot. It cost me 2 month of not being able to use it, and not having any sequencer, 20 e more than the price, and  is the worst build i have ever done as a result. And all this story grow in me, causing some stress and nervosity.

What make me even more angry, at the time of the buy, i was literrally broke and go in the supermarket trashes around my location to eat overdated food, in order to be able to bought it. All is better today with a new job, but hey...

, not from my fault, but from your, as you recognised it at a point. Or should i have ckecked all the part of your kit before?????

( And i have made a LOT of other kit from all sort from various provenance for more than 5 years without probs)

I just know i suck at desoldering, always take my time to do it right the first time, and that's it. But how could i know that the part provided with the kit were faulty??

I mean that if  i had sourced myself the component, not paying the premium price for a "no brainer " kit, i would have avoided all these problem, and this wonky build.

i'm prepared to be bashed by "the community", which don't feel more reponsive to put some help to my last enquiries on forum, surely because i offend master by critics before.. This things with diy kit, like we are all friend... we are not. We are consumer, and sp is a company which sell a product. I my case the product wasn't what it was advertised.  

But hey thinks two time before it, and be happy to have the luck to had a good kit, because i would love to know how you would have feel being in my place, left alone with a wonky kit after paying 400 bucks. surely exactly like me.

And i don't reproach the error. Like someone said me here, anyone can do some. ( not me in this case). What i reproach is the total lack of reaction or support after taking my money, and taking act of the case.

Come on julain, please give an answer.

flo

and i will put a reclamation to the DDPP, the french government things taking care of protecting french consumer by distance in europa, even if it goes nowhere, like here.

flo

and by and an answer, something other than ban me...

Möbius

I am sorry to hear that and I can understand your frustration.
But please have in mind that SP is a one-man company and that Julian has become a father not long ago.
I hope you can contact him somehow and wish you all the best!

faktoid

Does it make any sense to make this a public discussion?

julian

    Many thanks to sonic potion for the total
lack of answer to my inquiries or support since 2 month, after providing
me wrong part in my expensive kit.

you are welcome.

Although he recognise his error in the metal case post, and provide
me wrong part in my kit (incompatible with the case he sell me together)
julian didn't answer to any of my mails (3 or 4), provide any support,
and just blatantly ignore me until now, although he clearly know the
case.


Being able to create a thing like the lxr don't put you up of other
people, especially your customer, who trusted you by buying your things
and making alive your company.


What sort of fucking pretentious and self confident guy can act like this????

honestly, I'm asking myself the same question.

I can understand you are angry about a non working kit, but I don't think I'm responsible for all the problems you point out!


Just to recap. You got a perfectly working kit and a metal enclosure from adrian.

The only problem with the whole kit was that I upgraded 4 pots to a
better, sturdier version (full metal shaft vs. plastic shaft.) hat was too wide for the metal case. Since the Metal enclosure Adrian provided for me did not have the inner metal layer, the pots fit perfectly with my prototype.


So you had a fully working kit, but the frontpanel of the case could not be attached.
Yes, my failure was that I did not test the new pots with the final
run of the enclosures. It has nothing to do with me not being able to
read parts lists.



The complete lack of support consisted of you getting the matching
replacement pots and desoldering tools right after Me and Adrian knew
about the problem.

By doing this you just let me 2 month alone without any seq, waiting each day for an answer or a sign from your part.


it's very cool from your part to advise people :"Even if you are
just a few hours away from playing with your new synth, don't work in a
hurry. A stupid mistake will take longer to fix than to take your time
and work thoroughly.

    "

    But you should too mention  that if the stupid mistake came from you
(by how to say, too much self confidence and lack of control or working
in a hurry??), anyone shouldn't expect for any support.



    And from my experience, you are a stellar way distance from other kits sellers on this...

Once again. As I understood it, the wrong pots did not prevent the
synthesizer from working. They were physically a little bit too
wide.Also, you got replacement pots to match the case right away.



I even offered you in January to send me the PCB so I could change the
pots out of good will, but you wanted me to pay for the whole shipping.

So far I had 4 people who could not spot the error they made when their
LXR did not boot up and I fixed the PCB for them free of charge (besides
shipping)

I'm not obliged to do any repairs, since it is a do it YOURSELF kit. But
I offered my help. But I'm not gonna pay for spending my time to make
repairs.

It's now "sort of fixed". I removed the four bad pots you provide me
with the  280E kit incompatible with the 100 E case. ( 1h) i removed
the cracked screen (3h), cracked due to tried to move it after first
solder  thinking it was the cause of not going in the case ( in facts it
was your pots). I bought a new screen ( 20 euros) i resolder the 4
knobs adrian provide me ( a a place i wasnt, but he can't know that, i
had to wait 2 weeks before putting my hand on them) . One of them was
faulty. I desolder it again, killing most of the pad after this second
desoldering. refusing to pay 20 more or so for the delivering of a 1 E
new pot, and not hoping anynthing anymore from sp or his fanboy i take
one of the older one , i worked on it to make it "compatible".

I don't know what I have to do with the cracked screen.

The screen is in no way related to the pots and not in the way to remove them.


You take a wire cutter, cut away the 10 legs of the 4 pots and remove the old solder and rest of the legs with desolder wick.



As my terms and conditions clearly state

"No guarantee is provided for defects and damages resulting from inappropriate or improper use, incorrect or negligent treatment."

My lxr now have a pot way much harder than the other, not being the
same type and i feel very bad about that. the pcb is messed a lot around
this pot. It cost me 2 month of not being able to use it, and not
having any sequencer,

You got the replacement pots send to you on january the 7th.

I take no responsibility in the time it takes you to build the unit.

(...)

I just know i suck at desoldering, always take my time to do it
right the first time, and that's it. But how could i know that the part
provided with the kit were faulty?? I mean that if  i had sourced myself
the component, not paying the premium price for a "no brainer " kit, i
would have avoided all these problem, and this wonky build.

What if mouser send you a defective pot?

At my old workplace we assembled a big unit that took 2-3 hours, just to
find out after closing the case that 1 LED was not working.

That's just bad luck and nobody to blame.



I would understand if it would have been an assembled unit. "Broken pot? here have a replacement unit."

But since this is a DIY kit the normal way it goes is: "Broken pot? here have another Pot!"

julian

This things with diy kit, like we
are all friend... we are not. We are consumer, and sp is a company which
sell a product. I my case the product wasn't what it was advertised. 

Yes it was. 4 parts in the kit were wrong and the wrong parts have been replaced.


What if the screen had a pixel error or a dead line? something I can not check without soldering the display?

You would have to desolder and replace the display. But my responsibility as a kit seller ends with providing a new display. (what other people who had this problem accepted)



Believe me, I don't want people sitting there with a non working unit.

It troubles me if I know someone paid a lot of money and can't finish
his build and I don't see myself not responsible anymore as soon as the
parcel left my office and I have the money. But on the other hand I as a
company sell parts and instructions how to assembly them. I can't and
don't offer a successful  build guarantee and even recommend soldering
newbies that it would be good to try soldering on something smaller
first.



As you say I am a company and I have to make money. I don't make money
if I offer free of charge repairs. I do them anyways from time to time.

You lost a buttons or melted a switch? I'll send it out for the shipping
fee only. I should charge for that, but hey I want you to finish your
build.



I loose money If I start paying 30,- shipping for doing free of charge repairs I offer out of good will.

And I loose my goodwill to offer them completely if you act entitled to it.

    But hey thinks two time before it, and be happy to have the luck to
had a good kit, because i would love to know how you would have feel
being in my place, left alone with a wonky kit after paying 400 bucks.
surely exactly like me.



    And i don't reproach the error. Like someone said me here, anyone
can do some. ( not me in this case). What i reproach is the total lack
of reaction or support after taking my money, and taking act of the
case.



    Come on julain, please give an answer.

I know I'm slow with answers currently, and as stated above I know the
feeling of a non working kit and understand the frustration about it.

But still I don't understand what I should do.



It seems in your view I am responsible for all the problems. you state yourself you made no error.

you replaced the pots and seem to have a working unit now. What do you expect me to do now?

flo

Thanks (?) to finally give me a sort of answer after 2 months of waiting., and being stucked.

I would have been pretty fine by your first proposition of fixing it yourself. But after speaking about it , you just disapear and give no word until now, having tried to contact you by your shop and by pm.

The question should i paid return postage being left without answer by the way, until now (and i'm not surprised by the answer)

You don't see how you are responsible for the screen and all?

so let me say the story again:

First the kit was fully assembled and totally working, not any prob at all. But i bought too a case which was sold me to be compatible.

At the time i tried to put it in the case, it obviously didn't fit, space between pcb and top of the case is not enough. MY FAULT? MY ERROR??

My real error here was to think that the error came from me, by overtrusting you: by looking at it , i had think that it was due to the screen being solder too high, and believe me it was not an evidence it was the knobs. I assumed you were right and i was wrong. But after lower it and cracked it doing it , it appears that YOUR pots were wrong.not the screen. How could i knowed that, after years of you ruling your shop without apparent probs??  All the rest is direct subsequence of YOUR error, so to me it's YOUR responsability. 

(new screen , desoldering, cost, time). Having taking my time to do it right the first time, like you advise on your construction guide.

Say i bought a kit table at ikea. I came to home with my table kit starting building it. But they were wrong and dispatch a wrong set of screw, 2 mm too wide in diameter than the one normally dispatched. I dont notice it, having build lot of ikea things before, it generally went fine. By screwing them in the premade hole in the wood, i cracked the wood. I go back to ikea. Did you see them telling me for two months, not today, please come back tomorrow for two months???did you see them finally just dispatching the correct screws, and advising me to glue the wood part of the table, arguing it's noit their responsability???? REALLY??

All this IS DIRECT subsequence of YOUR error. Without YOUR error all wouls have been perfectly fine from the first time.

You said adrian provide me the case. That's false, you sell it to me and send it to me, Togeteher with a kit which is meant to go with.

This is not lego. You can't just give replacement part and thats it. Thats not like say a gameboy cartridge you remove and reput in place. There is things to do  like desoldering ( and i directly said i doenst want to do that, having done my homework and all fine the first time)  and time to wait for parts, time to desolder and all. Thats the reason of your advertisement. This just like drop in touch in rugby and put the fixing of problem due to YOUR error in the hand of your consumer. And this why to avoid all of this i bought a kit. my error???

As a result, after 2 6582, 3 sammichs sid fm, 2 seq 4 , Gorfs, more than 10 shruthi including xt, several anushri, and other things i forgot, lots of them sourced myself, this is first time i front such building and communication problem.

As a result, my lxr isn't at all well built. Its wonky. Miss pad on pcb. look like burned. have different type of knob giving different response. Have different pots type which fell different, messed pcb, cost me lot of building time, 2 month of waiting for using it, waiting before act from an answer from your part. All this due to YOUR ERROR, as like i said, the kit was first perfectly fine builded at first. Should i had only the statement you made today time ago, i would not have waited all this time to do it. I was hoping and waiting from an answer.

What did i expect?? First you recognise all this, second you gimme another FINE kit to replace my wonky and messed one, due to YOUR ERROR minus the ics, the button and knobs caps. And why not you give me back the 20 euros more it cost me like any serious "company" will do. Should i have paid by paypal, i would have been protected and able to put a claim, but not the case here

Will it happen??? humm clearly not sure.

And once again, what i first reproach is not your error, but the total lack of support, communication from your part after you knowe it. 

And Please don't argue about the pots given to me with a shruthi case by adrian, or is in fact adrian part of sp?? once again, dropped in touch.

Total lack of support from sp, origgin of the probs, that's it.

Does it make any sense to make this a public discussion?

Yes when 3 or 4 mails by the forum and by the link on the shop are left without answer for 2 months, when in the same time he rules his shop, approve menbership and post on forum. At least i have now an answer by acting like this

But please have in mind that SP is a one-man company and that Julian has become a father not long ago.
I hope you can contact him somehow and wish you all the best!

I don't want to ear that. Like i said my reproach first go to sonic potion as a commercial company. And i honestly wish the best for his private life, ( even if i use hate word in my post).It just has anything to do with all this story. it argument you can use for example if benefit are not made, or for free work, which is not the case i think.

Varthdader

I am amazed that after you built all those DIY kits you claim to have successfully built, you were impatient enough to crack the screen. Or claim that any lifted pad or pcb issue because of desoldering is Julian´s fault.

C´mon mate, this is DIY, let´s not be naive about our expectations of a kit. This is not Ikea. It is not the same.

I understand and totally agree that a timely response and tech "hand-holding" through the repair/swap process is something that should be there when needed, but this is DIY, where an amount of technical knowledge is recommended and builds are not idiot-proof, no matter the simpleness of the kit in question. It is still DIY electronics.

I can totally relate to the feeling of not having a perfect unit, but please try and keep a perspective on this.

flo

like i always said i suck at desoldering and do it right the first time. i would know how you move yourself a 16 pin screen without damaging it, without special tool which i don't have at the time otr even today.

and on all my previous other builds: the kit were right, or the sourcing done from tested bom were followed. Obviously it was not tested here. But it was sold the same way.

each time i had to desolder it went bad. 2 time in facts, years ago on my first build it ended by buying a new pcb, and recently on a pcb to put different leds i was near to destroy the pcb. ( for 2 legs led)

.

what i claim is: no sp error, no desoldering needed, no damage. from the start i said i suck at it and want to avoid it, and since... nothing.

and i don't see where the difference is with the ikea image , sorry.

and if im not electronician and don't understand a fuck about what component do, i think now know what is diy electro; take your time and do it right the first time, at least for me, which i have done here.

C´mon mate, this is DIY, let´s not be naive about our expectations of a kit. This is not Ikea. It is not the same.

What should be my expectation for a 400 e kit?b Normal to have wrong parts, and no support about that?? 

Better to be naive and belive you will have what you paid for???

:-t

Varthdader

But there was no need to desolder an lcd. Just the removal of pots which is dead easy once you snip the legs.

The whole lcd issue was not due to any kit mistake, just too much force.

I do agree that support is part of the deal and should be given, maybe recent private events in Julian´s life have conspired against in this unfortunate case.

Ikea is different in that their products are thought out to be assembled by people with no skills. DIY at this level is not the same, you need to be able to at least follow along much longer and complex instructions as well as research forums for oftentimes obscurely documented updates and warnings on the build in question. These are all things that could be improved granted!

You should see me trying to build a 9090 and it´s sequencer the MB-909 or any midi box for that matter!

bassFant

@flo: Don't waste your and other people's time with useless posts. Instead take this time to improve your skills. Calm down. You bought a kit, not support. Mistakes can happen anywhere when going the DIY route. Mistakes at the seller, mistakes at the part supplier, mistakes at your site. Learn how to handle that. Re-think your priorities (food vs. a Synth). Learn to distinguish between a large company like IKEA (147.000 employees, revenue 29.293 billion Euros) and a one man show like Sonic Potions. Learn to decide whether a project is within your personal range. Watch the support forum to get a feeling about the activity before buying anything. Consumers pay for ready-made products, DIYers not. Consumers buy Roland, Korg, Yamaha... Learn to ask questions the smart way. Improve your writing skills. Improve your (de-)soldering skills. Hint: Cut away broken parts (they are already broken), use iron and tweezers to remove remaining legs, use a good solder sucker to clean the hole. Improve your electronic skills, especially when it comes to troubleshooting. Buy proper tools. Improve you mechanical skills...

Rowan

@flo

Your acting (and writing) like a small child, grow up!

This type of thing and your unreasonable action is what forces great DIY business's away for selling DIY products. It happened with Mutable Instruments, lets hope the Sonic Potins doesn't go the same way.

flo

and the screen prob was directly tied to the wrong pots... like i said i believed it was it; because you really can't distinguish if it was it or the knob going in the way of the case from the side, like on the pics i posted before... And i assumed by lowering it would solve the prob, first thinking all this shit was due to me... before understanding that were the pot, after lowering it and cracked it by the way.

It was fine at the start.

And like you said i bought a kit, difference between yours and mine is that mine has wrong part, which lead to all the shit after. And your lucky enough to not have to face this. i'm not fighting the error here, i'm fighting the blatant lack or answer , support or any kind of comprehensive feeling for two fucking months, when i started to write you now polite and all mess and question, and the thing: now  i have the money, just fuck fixed my shit, and that's it. 

Exactly like i said, lucky guy to had what you paid for.

 And sorry not at all useless for me. Just try to have what i paid for.

Skill of soldering a kit is acquired here, believe it or not. Skills to fix other error or desoldering not. 

and i was first polite and all but hey after 2 months....

:-&

Varthdader

To recap, I think most of this issue is really about communication, and a very particular moment in Julian´s life.

I think by now we can all agree that any support issue was an anomaly and not in bad intention.

Hence, I invite flo to fall in love again with SP by playing the LXR, such a wonderful machine!

mush

Blaming personal incompetence on others... It is a Diy kit - one of the best documented online. But it is still diy - you are expected to have some skills to make it work. Desoldering is as important as soldering in the skill set in Diy-land. If you don't have that basic skill - don't buy a 300 euro kit (btw it is not an expensive kit)

flo

but i knowed it before, i will be wrong .....

flo

Blaming personal incompetence on others... It is a Diy kit - one of the best documented online. But it is still diy - you are expected to have some skills to make it work. Desoldering is as important as soldering in the skill set in Diy-land. If you don't have that basic skill - don't buy a 300 euro kit (btw it is not an expensive kit)

seriously, i think you dont know at all of what you speak, but hey i stop here because you all make me more and more nervous.. And you know diy land tend to be included in all the real land, when you want what you bought, ie, a case ok with the kit which cost me 400 e, as it was advertised on site.

ok i'm gone today because you make me all more and more nervous and fill finish to not slept this night.

implant

I love Sonic Porions LXR FLO, love is easier than hate. ;-)

juggernaut

yes, i can understand your frustration and also some difficult answering with julian. however, he is now a father.
anyway, at the top there are trusted builders who can do the job for you. in my case andre at tube ohm was the solder guy and he did a great job. probably you send a trusted builder a mail and ask for help.

just my 2cents.

cube48

Simple de-soldering iron costs ~20 EUR. The 'investment' into one is priceless and it's not more difficult than soldering then.

I had some issues with my LXR after moving the guts from Acrylic case into metal one. Some hidden cold joints appeared but I had neither time nor skills and equipment needed to trace it down. Andre from TubeOhm saved the day and I happily payed the good service.

flo

I fixed it, but i dont see how this is all normal to all of you to endorse extra cost like trusted builder, desoldering tool, screen ans have any support nor answer, when thé error is from thé seller., who dont give a fuck now he has the money. To this day, i don touch it, this story kill all thé mojo.

Altitude

you want a tissue?

faktoid

come on, you do still have a great device with enormous possibilities for cheap money.

What is your point? It is fixed and now you do not want to use it? Does that make sense?

papernoise

well the fact that everybody sees this normal except you should maybe be a clue...
welcome to DIY. If you don't want to mess with all of this, get a Korg or Roland or whatever off-the-shelf drum machine.

Andrés

I do not understand how this is the hottest topic of the forum....

As a welder you're a great arguer.