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which kind of button to use?

julianjulian
edited February 2013 in Technical details and features
At the moment I have to choose between 2 button types to use for the synth. I can make PCBs that take both switch types, and they should fit the same front panel cutout. The question is which buttons to supply with the kits.

- the D6R buttons from C&K
image     image
- the TL1100 with round caps
image         image

D6R
pro:
+ available even at reichelt
+ very silent

con:
- cap not interchangeable
- you have to push them all the way down. Although they have a nice pressure point, the switch operating point comes after the pressure point.
so the button will feel as if pushed (click) but you have to push it further to really close the switch. :(
- can be soldered in in the wrong orientation
- I have no long time experience with this button
- kind of ugly ;)

TL1100
pro
+ used in a lot of other projects (should be reliable - xoxbox, shruthi, beat707 etc.)
+ caps can be changed
+ nice pressure point. A click really means the switch is closed.
+ looks nice
+ can only be soldered in in the right orientation

con
- so far I have not found round caps that really fit the switch. there are really nice round caps (digikey), but it would be recommended to use a drop of glue to secure the caps on the switch, since they don't snap on to the switch.
correction: The C&K caps for the TL1100 fits some of them are a bit loose due to production tolerance. It's just the cap from e-switch (TAGBLK) that seems too wide.
- the click sound they produce is louder (not sure if this is really a con)

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Comments

  • drkorgdrkorg
    I put my vote on the TL1100. 
    I think there are different types of them with different size of the "head". Maybe you could find one with a tad bigger head which will make the cap fit.
    My preferable choice are the ones with low pressure power so you don't have to push hard and they are not so "clicky"
    I bought some round caps from ebay. Ill check when I get home if they fit the switch in a good way.
  • julianjulian
    edited February 2013
    hmmm, I have to correct myself.
    The C&K caps for the TL1100 fit perfectly. It's just the cap from e-switch (TAGBLK) that is too wide.
    The C&K caps sometimes fit real snug, and sometimes are a little bit too wide. Seems to be production tollerance. I have caps from the same bag that snap on and some that fall of.

    The e-switch cap (TAGBLK) is always too wide.

    So I tend more and more on using the TL1100 myself ;)
  • julianjulian
    the ones with the bigger head won't fit at all. They have a ~3.8mm head but the cutout in the cap stretches only in one direction.

    I measured the caps. The datasheet states 3.3mm for the square cutout for the head.
    The head from the buttons I've got are 3.3mm as well.

    If the cap is 3.3mm it slides off very easy. but a lot of the caps I measured (the C&K ones) are between 3.0 and 3.2 mm on the flexible axis. these fit nice and tight. A drop of glue works very well to fix the loose caps. Just tried it out with some general purpose glue.
  • waveformerwaveformer
    Multimec 3FTL6 ?
  • LindeborgLindeborg
    edited February 2013
    I have had no problem what so ever with the TL1100 and I find them to work well. So that would be my obvious choice, then again the I don't have that much experience with the D6R. I usually put a small amount of silicone putty in the knob to keep them tight, makes them fixed but still removable...
  • julianjulian
    wayyyy too loud, imho.
    but very nice with built in LED.
    I had the multimec buttons in my first prototype.
    and the loud clicking noise they make really annoyed me ;)
    There is a silent version, but more expensive and only with a MOQ of 10k pcs.

    I also didn't like the footprint of the old multimec 3f series (with the separate led) and the new version has the LED built in, but the green is this ugly yellow/green.


  • cereyanlimusikicereyanlimusiki
    I vote for TL1100 too but
    This is also nice idea to use Multimec 3FTL6 with led if it would help to identify the step in sequencer 
  • LindeborgLindeborg
    How about the ones used in Vaco's GorF XL?
  • LamouetteLamouette
    or the ones used on the Eowave magma ?
    http://rekkerd.org/img/201203/eowave_magma.jpg
  • julianjulian
    I don't know the which switches are used in the gorf xl (could be multimec with another cap) the old gorf used multimec. I also don't know about the switch type used in the magma (could be multimec as well)

    but as stated above, I didn't like the feel/sound of the multimec switches at all.
    So I think it will be TL1100

    but thanks for all the input :)
  • monoauralmonoaural
    edited May 2013
    +1 for the TL1100
    used them in other projects. like´em a lot. have a nice click when pushing.
  • BakenekoBakeneko

    Hi

    the GorF XL switches are Marquardt switches, some with an led in the corner (I own a GorF XL).

    they  are not cheap.

    I would go for the TL 1100 but that is because I have a bag of them. ;-)

    regards

     

     

  • julianjulian
    I just had a look at the Marquardt ones - with 2€ in bulk much too expensive with 39 switches on board.
    At the moment I changed the PCB layout and added support for the TL1100 (C&K still fit, too).
    It's a bit tight in one or two places but should work :)
  • BakenekoBakeneko

    hi Julian.

    Re the Marqardt yes, they seem to be the Rolls Royce of switches ...

    As I said i like the TL1100s ...

    too late now , but the midibox Seq V4 lite uses 6mm tact , to great sucess.

    regards

     

  • mqldngmqldng
    or what about something simple (and probably unexpensive - no experience there) like the switches used in the MFB 522?
  • monoauralmonoaural
    i used this MFB 522 style ones and don´t like the tooo much. i think these ones are the same which mathias aka. faderfox uses in this devices. i prefer way more the TL 1100.
  • shiftrshiftr
    Another good thing about the TL1100 is that there are also other 12x12 tact switches out there with the same footprint.
  • julianjulian
    yes - they are widely used. I think FM7 and Virus use them, too. The most popular would be the omron series. even available as long servive life version. I noticed that these would require additional alignment drill holes on the PCB though.
  • dlylinedlyline
    hey i've only got 29x TL1100 (may be another bag somewhere 8-} ).

    the caps i have from ebay don't fit very well!
    do you know if the caps you use would fit this stupidly shaped actuator?

  • stimrespstimresp
    A panel-mount option I've used with the Shruthi are the 'T 113A' buttons which are widely availlable, cheap and come in different colours.


    No click - they are absolutely silent. 

    Downsides:
    Cute but a little small perhaps (not a problem for me). But it should be possible to mod, eg, with rubber caps.
    Maybe not of the highest quality (but these are 'reinforced' versions).

    When I get my hands on a PCB I will probably use these.
  • shiftrshiftr
    One thing i've noticed with theTLl1100 is that the PCB get a  lot of pressure on it. Maybe it get's better when it's in a case but like it is now the PCB bends every time i hit the step buttons. Maybe it just needs a few more standoffs...
  • julianjulian
    do you have mounted all the standoffs?
    if so, it is a lot better in a case. On my naked unit the standoffs move to the side if you push the pcb down between them. If the standoffs are screwed to a plate they cand move sideways. So the PCB in the enclosure only moves a tiny little bit if you press really hard.
  • dlylinedlyline
    this is the switch i have enough of in my parts and would like to use. i have no caps for these.
    does anybody use them? where to get caps? model number?
    the chrome polished cap looks good, where are they available?
  • julianjulian
    the caps I used (as well as the polished chrome ones from substyler I think) are for the 3.3mm square type plunger. I had a quick look, but not even on the manufacturer site (e-switch) I could find caps for this plunger type :-/

    But I'm not good at finding switch caps!
  • shiftrshiftr
    I find it strange ....
    The normal TACBLK switchcaps are perfect for the TL1100... I noticed that all the round ones i got (MOUSER but the same as in the kit) are to big and need glue or something.
  • cereyanlimusikicereyanlimusiki
    edited May 2013
    was it not possible to use tactile switches with led like this ?


    image

    instead of leds and switches are seperate ?

    or was it technical design or sourcing imposed decision ?
  • fcd72fcd72
    I think its more a price induced decision....
  • julianjulian
    yeah - price and height.
    I'd be happy to know about affordable LED buttons  (especially if they fit through a 13mm front panel. most are too flat)

    The multimec switches were the only ones that i found which had an ok price, but they make horribly loud clicks :(

    and I don't want to pay 1.50€ for a single switch :p
  • RevokRevok
    Sorry to revive this thread for an off-topic question.

    I have an MFB Synth II which has the D6R Buttons mentioned in the first post. I need to replace them because some of them are worn out from heavy use (by the previous owner). Does anyone know a cheap source? (Mouser is asking like $2 for the black ones :( ).

    Greetings

    Rvk
  • udenjoeudenjoe
    I really love soldering in the TL1100s. The click and orientationlessness are bonus.You just pop them on and stay in place while your solder. It's so easy.
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