Sound suggestions: "realistic" hihats, and two extra transients

Revok

Hey Julian, 

Really happy with the LXR so far!

I really like the sounds I can create on the hihat channels, but I can imagine feeling limited by them them in the foreseeable future. Some tracks call for something a bit more acoustic sounding (think the hihat and ride sounds on 909 and 707), is it possible to integrate waveforms to accomplish something like this?

The kicks sound great too, but one transient wave i'd like to have is the sharp acoustick tick you get from 80's digital sample based drum machines. Again the TR707 is a good example, or the LinnDrum. The kind of bassdrum that cuts through the muddiest of mixes.

I appreciate that the LXR isn't trying to be another half-assed replication of some old drum machine (thank god). So I'm not asking to copy those sounds exactly, but rather to recreate the specific acoustic qualities that make them so usable and omnipresent.

Another transient wave that might be interesting to try is that of a plucked string. Could be useful for a slap-bass type of attack in the lower ranges, or a pizzicato kind of sound in the higher ranges.

Thanks! 

Rvk

julian

If you have some royalty free samples to use I'm happy to include them! Plenty of space left.

admviolin

Give me the specs for the plucked string and I can create it!  I've got a couple of violins and a viola here.

Revok

So what is the legal status of the sounds from the old Roland boxes? Seeing as even some Yamaha gear comes with stock 808/909 samples I don't think any copyrights are being enforced.

julian

it depends.
808 is unproblematic, since it is an analogue machine.
for the 909 the crash and hihat are samples, this would not be ok as far as I understand since these ROM samples have a copyright.

julian

on the other hand I have at least 500kb flash memory left.
Maybe an option for small user sample kits would be feasable for the future...
no promises here, just an idea so far...

nightworxx

*DROOL*

Revok

Exactly what I was thinking but was hesitant to ask seeing as you're so swamped already

mokomo

on the other hand I have at least 500kb flash memory left.
Maybe an option for small user sample kits would be feasable for the future...
no promises here, just an idea so far...

That would be PHENOMENAL ... perhaps a designated folder on the SD card which has some rules about its contents:

 eg 

::only mono .wavs;

::up to a max of 16bit rate; (all files must be the same)

::first 3 characters of filename taken as sample name on LXR screen;

::folder must contain sufficient minimum correctly named files to populate the default required samples base list on the LXR, otherwise load will fail. (ie Clk, Ck2, Tik, Kik ... Sp2)

::up to a max 500kb in total sample load;

::additional samples can be added to the folder, memory limit permitting (using new names, different to default set)

::duplicate sample names will take first file found only;

::Hold down [Load/Save] button on boot-up if you want to load the folder contents to flash, otherwise ignore the samples folder on boot and use last loaded samples set.

udenjoe

I would think you would have to include the samples when building the software for it.

Edit: That being said we should get Julian some samples to fill that space! 

mokomo

so I guess that means we'd need to build a custom firmware on our desktop, pulling in the samples there, and then run the bootloader for it on the LXR...  still would be great. 

Revok

Btw, Julian: I just checked the 909 manual and there's no copyright notice about the sounds in there. And frankly, I'd be surprised if commercial sample library publishers like Goldbaby etc. ever paid a single $ in royalties to Roland corp to use one of their sounds.

julian

I'm no expert on this. But I remember having read several times on different DSP developer forums about this issue, that you are not allowed to include the original 909 ROM content in your clone project. Maybe it is ok to use sampled sounds from the output,  But I am not a lawyer.

Think of it from the other side. take the 707 for example. It is completely sample based (or any other rompler). I'm sure it would not be ok to take the 707 sample ROM and use it in a different machine, thus cloning the 707 100%.

but it's cumbersome to pick those legal BS apart. So I think a user sample option for the future would be good to ship around those issues.

borfo

I'm a copyright lawyer in Canada, and I'd say the safest bet would be to avoid using samples directly ripped from other devices.  There is probably an explicit or implied license to use the samples on devices like the 909 in certain ways - after all, people are making music with those devices, and Roland can't reasonably claim that they now want royalties for any music made with their device.  But it's doubtful that that license (especially if it's an implied license rather than an explicit written license) would extend to ripping the samples out directly and shipping them with another device.

Obviously if users could upload their own samples to the LXR (which would be great), then it'd be out of Julian's hands and it wouldn't be an issue.

It's possible there's an explicit license in the 909 manual or something, although it seems most musical device companies don't include an explicit license...  If there is, it's possible that the wording might allow uses like that, but that would be pretty sloppy legal work by whoever wrote the license.

controlvoltage

I am not a lawyer of any sort, mind you.  But I think an audio recording of a drum hit ought to be fair game, and certainly ought to be in a different category than the unaltered binary data from a factory ROM.

Regarding loading samples into LXR... if the live firmware can write to flash, then it seems there could be one way or another to get user sounds in.  I am very happy with the current feature set, but custom sample import is a brilliant dream for the future.  It would raise an already awesome machine to a higher power...

nightworxx

I own a set of originally sampled 808 and 909 samples Roland provided years ago for fair use. These were explicitly allowed ONLY for music production and not for commercial/technical usage. So Roland is aware of this, as these samples are base of their MC series !

julian

unlike the AVR the STM32 is capable of programming arbirtrary flash regions from the main firmware.
So in theory it should be possible to load a user sample set from the SD card to flash.
Direct SD card streaming is out of the question - not fast enough here.

julian

oh boy

drkorg

Oh boy!!

nightworxx

wth? This is going in a real nice direction ! *habenwill*

fcd72

MUST * HAVE !

Looove the Snare! Do you bring this Firmware next Weekend? 

Da Party Machine!

julian

good ol' akai hr16

drkorg

Woot! No XLR just HR16 or is it samples from HR16?

fcd72

I guess its a brainmelt of both ;-)

julian

just plain LXR + xoxbox
I toyed around with the user sample idea a bit.
currently I can upload 16 bit mono wavefiles from a folder on the SD card automatically and store them as new user waveforms (one shot) for the normal oscillators. still some minor stuff to sort out though

fcd72

Minor stuff means things like "where can i grab Linn9000 Samples" ? ;-)

julian

Quite possible I've got them in my collection already ;-)

The fm oscillator code is still missing for the sample waveforms and there remains some testing to do

fcd72

Hurry up, i want it for friday ;-)

drkorg

Jumpin' up and down flapping my hands!  )

void

re: copyright

someone posted this on one of the forums the other day -



longish, but you can just listen (no visual)

dlyline

o-> :^o and so much free space on all our sdcards..
what will the future hold julian. have you plans for any other devices or should i just buy another lxr now?